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	<title>Comments on: Aha!</title>
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	<link>http://sweaterproject.org/2005/08/31/aha/</link>
	<description>Survival of the Knittist</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://sweaterproject.org/2005/08/31/aha/#comment-2134</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://droth.info/?p=563#comment-2134</guid>
		<description>I just couldn't help myself.

DNA is and is not like software code.  They are alike in the sense that they are both symbolic representations of other things.  But software exists in a much different environment than DNA does.  Software needs a compiler or interpreter to work.  And it needs a central processing unit in order to do anything.  I don't see an analog to either of these in the cell.

I don't believe that the existence of expressible code indicates an intelligent author.  There's an old adage amongst lisp hackers that in lisp, you don't write programs; you write programs which write programs.  There's also a type software called a &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=genetic+algorithm" rel="nofollow"&gt;genetic algorithm&lt;/a&gt; in which the code itself is not written by a human being at all.  You create a test environment which evaluates the suitability of a given function for a given task.  You then start randomly generating functions and testing them.  When a function performs better than others at accomplishing the task, you make copies of it and combine it with other well-performing programs, occasionally throwing in new bits of randomness.  In this way it is possible to arrive at very efficient functions.  Some of the code generated this way is incomprehensible to us, but it works.

There is also the concept of &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=emergent+behavior" rel="nofollow"&gt;emergent behavior&lt;/a&gt;, which is behavior in a complex system that was not designed into it.

Also, self-replication isn't limited to what we consider living things.  Crystals will propagate their structure given the appropriate medium.  Weather patterns can be self-propagating.  I believe you can find self-replicating patterns at every level from the subatomic to the celestial.

But how many of those patterns have developed communications protocols?  Now there's an interesting question.

So, no.  Code does not need to be created by an intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just couldn&#8217;t help myself.</p>
<p>DNA is and is not like software code.  They are alike in the sense that they are both symbolic representations of other things.  But software exists in a much different environment than DNA does.  Software needs a compiler or interpreter to work.  And it needs a central processing unit in order to do anything.  I don&#8217;t see an analog to either of these in the cell.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that the existence of expressible code indicates an intelligent author.  There&#8217;s an old adage amongst lisp hackers that in lisp, you don&#8217;t write programs; you write programs which write programs.  There&#8217;s also a type software called a <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=genetic+algorithm" rel="nofollow">genetic algorithm</a> in which the code itself is not written by a human being at all.  You create a test environment which evaluates the suitability of a given function for a given task.  You then start randomly generating functions and testing them.  When a function performs better than others at accomplishing the task, you make copies of it and combine it with other well-performing programs, occasionally throwing in new bits of randomness.  In this way it is possible to arrive at very efficient functions.  Some of the code generated this way is incomprehensible to us, but it works.</p>
<p>There is also the concept of <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=emergent+behavior" rel="nofollow">emergent behavior</a>, which is behavior in a complex system that was not designed into it.</p>
<p>Also, self-replication isn&#8217;t limited to what we consider living things.  Crystals will propagate their structure given the appropriate medium.  Weather patterns can be self-propagating.  I believe you can find self-replicating patterns at every level from the subatomic to the celestial.</p>
<p>But how many of those patterns have developed communications protocols?  Now there&#8217;s an interesting question.</p>
<p>So, no.  Code does not need to be created by an intelligence.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://sweaterproject.org/2005/08/31/aha/#comment-2135</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://droth.info/?p=563#comment-2135</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the entertaining response/lively discussion!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the entertaining response/lively discussion!!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://sweaterproject.org/2005/08/31/aha/#comment-2136</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://droth.info/?p=563#comment-2136</guid>
		<description>Anon,
 
"Wouldn't some sort of intelligence have to have programmed that code, albeit an imperfect intelligence that created imperfect code?"

No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon,</p>
<p>&#8220;Wouldn&#8217;t some sort of intelligence have to have programmed that code, albeit an imperfect intelligence that created imperfect code?&#8221;</p>
<p>No.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://sweaterproject.org/2005/08/31/aha/#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://droth.info/?p=563#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>No comment on the scientific method stuff, but I would think programmers would find it difficult not to reflect on the fact that DNA is a code.  Yes, geological and astronomical objects have a  chemical structure, but the code for life is programmed to spawn child processes.  How did this code come about in the simplest of organisms? Wouldn't some sort of intelligence have to have programmed that code, albeit an imperfect intelligence that created imperfect code?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No comment on the scientific method stuff, but I would think programmers would find it difficult not to reflect on the fact that DNA is a code.  Yes, geological and astronomical objects have a  chemical structure, but the code for life is programmed to spawn child processes.  How did this code come about in the simplest of organisms? Wouldn&#8217;t some sort of intelligence have to have programmed that code, albeit an imperfect intelligence that created imperfect code?</p>
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		<title>By: Daphne</title>
		<link>http://sweaterproject.org/2005/08/31/aha/#comment-2138</link>
		<dc:creator>Daphne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://droth.info/?p=563#comment-2138</guid>
		<description>Okay, that last brain cell that I had that was really working, has just exploded. This is an excellent post to get one's mind going!

Really I'm very interested in the ID/Evolution debate, but I'm so tired because I haven't evolved to be able to live on 4 hours of sleep, nor did any intelligent designer foresee my need for living on 4 hours of sleep. :) Nursing school is punishing...


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, that last brain cell that I had that was really working, has just exploded. This is an excellent post to get one&#8217;s mind going!</p>
<p>Really I&#8217;m very interested in the ID/Evolution debate, but I&#8217;m so tired because I haven&#8217;t evolved to be able to live on 4 hours of sleep, nor did any intelligent designer foresee my need for living on 4 hours of sleep. <img src='http://sweaterproject.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Nursing school is punishing&#8230;</p>
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